tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.comments2022-11-30T07:46:57.148+00:00Spiralwise - Tai chi from a scientific perspectiveSpiralWisehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10619983850219828834noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-79638975343669117622020-11-16T14:32:03.487+00:002020-11-16T14:32:03.487+00:00We as individuals can't interact with the Hig...We as individuals can't interact with the Higgs boson field. But we as the human race can. Putting it in an energy circuit, is literally what they are doing with the LHC & CERN particle accelerators. Similar arguments can be made for dark energy. So your substantive argument that forms of energy exist that can't be put into an "energy circuit" is simply incorrect. Were you correct our fundamental understanding of all of physics would collapse. If your opinion turned out to be so, and you could prove it, you would be hailed as one of the greatest geniuses the world has ever known. No disrespect, but I think that is unlikely.SpiralWisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10619983850219828834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-4438598822606952972020-09-06T14:31:17.314+01:002020-09-06T14:31:17.314+01:00Coming across this article - and as Taichi and Qi ...Coming across this article - and as Taichi and Qi Gong Practitioner, I tend to agree with the deeper perception of Chi not being energy, but efficiency - it makes a difference when practicing from the point of view of Efficiency ... and it allows a different Taichi Expression in the body - good article, point taken - now off to practice efficiency ! KKomayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04972446613129258258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-39157158062685849212018-01-12T13:42:37.975+00:002018-01-12T13:42:37.975+00:00I'm really enjoying this blog, and I love your...I'm really enjoying this blog, and I love your approach and ideas. So far though, your solution to the Chi problem bothers me. During my Tai Chi studies, I was taught that the only way to understand Chi is through Daoist Internal Alchemy meditation ("energy" meditation as it is called in New Agey circles, or Neidan as it is traditionally called). That Chi is a concept designed to visualize an experience. Here you got it right!! But you haven't pin pointed exactly what that experience is yet. <br /><br />The idea was that you have to understand the concept properly in its fully traditional cultural context before translating it to a different language or system. In the traditional context, tai chi is part of a larger system that included meditation as the crux of that system. The increased inner awareness afforded by meditation is crucial to grasping what Chi is. If I may be so bold as to give you advice, I would start by learning daoist "energy" meditation. Move the Chi through the meridians, and contemplate a better way of describing what you are feeling. Chi is actually a phenomenological concept. Though the people who developed the concept weren't scientists, I would argue that they where proto, Eastern Phenomenologists. To properly understand it, you can not take a purely Cartesian approach, not in the beginning any way. Chi is a concept to help explain an experience of feeling that appears to flow through the body during meditation. In my own experience fluid dynamics combined with phenomenological concepts will probably provide the best explanation. <br /><br />The best explanation currently existing, that is pragmatic, and covers the experience of Chi comes from Peter Ralston (founder of Cheng Hsin). He speaks of developing feeling-awareness. Its my contention that this feeling that we are becoming more aware of, which Ralston says is the key to mastering any skill, is Chi. So what is that feeling? <br /><br />Eugene Gendlin developed a technique, called Focusing, in which we tune into feelings we have in our body. Its a kind of intuition you are developing. He calls this tapping into the felt-sense...again its beating around the bush as to what that sense is. I've been working with Gendlin's and Ralston's methodology for some time, and they are talking about the same thing. Both methods are highly useful. I'm currently trying to develop a deeper understanding of what these feelings are. They are not the same as emotions. You can, and always do, have a felt-senses of thoughts and of your body. <br /><br />I would love to see you delve into this! Very curious what ideas you might devise. SurfinCypherzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11463655782684436918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-63086941191684411412017-09-23T00:40:57.750+01:002017-09-23T00:40:57.750+01:00I think you're correct to an extent, but how d...I think you're correct to an extent, but how does 'stored elastic energy' become a conscious experience? that is the mystical stuff bit for meAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15925873928033179779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-37092670328396016082017-09-23T00:30:49.401+01:002017-09-23T00:30:49.401+01:00Hmmm I'm not so sure I'm convinced by what...Hmmm I'm not so sure I'm convinced by what is being said here, just because we can't physically, or materially interact with an energy, doesn't mean it doesn't exist as a form of energy. For instance the Higgs energy field is said to exist across the entire universe, but can you utilise that energy in a circuit? No. Dark Energy is believed to be instrumental in the formation of galaxies, but can we interact with it? No. It interacts with gravity. Gravity is an energy field that exists across space, we can observe it, but can we hook it up to a generator and run appliance off of it? Chi energy is the conversion of material sense data into conscious perceptionAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15925873928033179779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-45335291434837556522017-09-10T11:16:29.136+01:002017-09-10T11:16:29.136+01:00the etheric substance/energy prana, chi etc. is a ...the etheric substance/energy prana, chi etc. is a subtle energy experienced in trance and out of body experiences. This energy has some material qualities like to combine with electrical charge. Energy circeling like So-ham or embryonic breath (practised in golden flower methods) works at that base.<br />If you want to know more details write to alfred.ballabene@gmx.atAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15614701454775750190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-85490265466816922402017-04-08T22:47:15.372+01:002017-04-08T22:47:15.372+01:00Hi
lets not forget that the level/quality of your...Hi<br /><br />lets not forget that the level/quality of your instruction has to be of a pretty high standard - a less than excellent teacher is not going to 'help' you get anywhere fast...Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17039201919573662115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-11825329936545211112016-12-23T21:26:42.361+00:002016-12-23T21:26:42.361+00:00Very good article. I practice physical therapy. ...Very good article. I practice physical therapy. My medical background influences my objectivity. I just want to be fair. In being fair, we must observe certain laws such as gravity and physics and Energy. Fair enough to state a fact energy cannot be created or destroyed. When we die, what is that "energy" that was consciousness? Where does it go? It came from somewhere and just by the laws of physics, it has to go somewhere. It is not fair to say that Chi is not energy only because we cannot measure it. I agree that it is just a theory to say it exists because we cannot measure it at this time, but that does not disprove it does not exist due to our limited technology. There are unusual phenomena we cannot explain at this time. There is always an answer but the questions being asked are not allowing us to find the answer. The master who said not to concern ourselves with "throwing energy" I agree, just practice the form. No one needs such power even if it was possible. Why would someone want to acquire such power? I would give them the same answer "Just practice the form." My teacher is a great master. I do not believe in Chi but I darn sure FELT something I had NEVER EVER felt before and it was alarming. Was that energy? I don't know but I would not DARE to question him that it was anything BUT CHI ENERGY. If he believes it is Chi and it is just his faith, he transferred something my mind did not understand, through someone else, into me. I don't believe in it, but my physical therapy brain told me my bones and joints were only so strong and going to break. I am not sure how someone could be so efficient they could transfer their efficiency into an older person, through that person and into me, but I felt it. It was no mind trick.<br />Suffice to say everyone has their opinions. There are a LOT of fakes out there too. There are also a lot of misguided people with weak minds who are easily led. I thank you for the article as it was fair enough. There is no proof either way in my mind at this time other than what I once felt through an older kyphotic woman who had me dancing around her as the master led her hands. The old masters are dying out and if we don't learn some of their secrets, if there are any, they will be lost to antiquity forever.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03326281234629333852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-78674185925761975482016-12-07T14:38:18.252+00:002016-12-07T14:38:18.252+00:00These are great!!These are great!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03418300486979581148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-89349487043895784142016-12-07T11:41:31.055+00:002016-12-07T11:41:31.055+00:00Thank you for your most interesting blog.
Regardi...Thank you for your most interesting blog.<br /><br />Regarding the question of why soldiers and external martial artists adopt a chest-out posture versus the hollowed chest of the tai chi practioner, my first thought is that they are preparatory poses for their quintessential moves. It is easier for a soldier or police officer to punch or draw a weapons if the shoulders are back. It is easier for the tai chi person to reach forward and then guide a blow into an empty space if his shoulders are already forward.<br /><br />What do you think? :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03418300486979581148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-13149377383019154512016-10-11T01:10:25.198+01:002016-10-11T01:10:25.198+01:00Tigger's Chi balls are always smaller than he ...Tigger's Chi balls are always smaller than he imagines they could be. <br />If only Tigger struck all thoughts about what Chi is from his mind while making a Chi ball, his Chi balls would be much bigger and stronger. ;)Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05674719370732608551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-36910854566548382082016-04-16T11:23:14.085+01:002016-04-16T11:23:14.085+01:00nice post
nice post<br />Caitlin Daceyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13499297168239594689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-85309743082780986492016-02-01T06:59:09.556+00:002016-02-01T06:59:09.556+00:00so funnyso funnyJustin L. Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05068868452059665489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-14964418382227553832015-09-25T15:10:56.956+01:002015-09-25T15:10:56.956+01:00Thanks very much for that comment, it was highly t...Thanks very much for that comment, it was highly thought-provoking. Clearly it important not to throw the baby with the bathwater. What I'm quite categorically NOT saying is that “chi in any of its interpretations” does not exist. What I am saying is that people use chi to explain all number of ridiculous things the most prevalent being "chi is energy”. It is therefore important to try to build your own filters to understand and separate "the feeling of chi” (the love analogy) from the rest. Chi exist just like love exists. However I don't commonly run into people who claim that love is a form of energy, or encounter a plethora of “love masters”, that claim extraordinary abilities to manipulate the flow of love in their body. Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? So it is with chi.<br /><br />For someone to claim "it" doesn't exist, you first need to define what "it" is. For me (as above) chi is only a feeling and as with all feelings it is perfectly reasonable to spend your whole life trying to explore and define it, just like poets, philosophers and artists have been doing for millennia with love. However if you think "it" is some kind of energy force that science has not yet been able to explain, I'm perfectly happy stating that that “it” does not exist. True like all good scientists one can never be 100% sure as future discoveries are always possible and you cannot prove a negative. But it seems to me that the chi-as-energy theory would require a violation of the first law of thermodynamics (conservation of energy) which is just about the most fundamental law in science (as I have written about in other posts). In other words, overturning something which is such a core bedrock would be the most astonishing and revolutionary discovery, most likely in the entire history of science. Ever. So, one has to draw a line at some point, I mean how many 9's do you need to add to 99.999999%, before one accepts it is 100% in all practical senses?<br /><br />As the great Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". For chi-as-energy there is no evidence and "I felt a little funny this one time my sifu pushed me" doesn't cut it. Anyone who thinks to the contrary needs to take a reality check, because their name will echo through eternity for all time, above Newton, above Einstein, above anyone you care to mention, if it turns out they are in fact correct.<br />SpiralWisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10619983850219828834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-31095573293686577272015-09-24T16:29:20.464+01:002015-09-24T16:29:20.464+01:00I like what you're saying and the way of expla...I like what you're saying and the way of explaining chi in a western scientific understanding. I think it's important to do so. Yet, from this viewpoint it seems like your saying chi doesn't exist because we can't prove it. You compare it to love... and yet although we can't scientifically measure or quantify love, consciousness, etc... we do know it exists, as you say in more of a feeling, sensational and subjective type of way versus being able to point at it and say "oh there it is". <br /><br />So if you can feel the chi.. like you can feel love.. then doesn't it exist even if scientists cannot quantify or measure it from an objective standpoint?<br /><br />Science is an ever evolving study of the universe. We can only prove things and improve our understanding of how the universe works by way of our current technological advancement. Maybe we do not have the technology to measure or prove that chi exists at this point.... just like we couldn't use electricity or harness the power of the atom hundreds of years ago. Yet that potential power and energy was always there even if we couldn't measure it or fully understand it from our limited awareness at the time.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00418186865178105765noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-39122402317717027282015-06-15T19:18:42.270+01:002015-06-15T19:18:42.270+01:00Thanks for posting, and you are indeed correct the...Thanks for posting, and you are indeed correct they do not match. Your link is a clip from a pseudoscience entertainment program showing classic Shaolin kung fu circus performance acts. It has been carefully edited for maximum sensationalismand and cleverly says very little that is actually concrete. Note for example how they gloss over that the baseball bat hit is at a significantly lower force than the previous one on the dummy that they wax lyrical about. Why don't they talk about that rather than the completely irrelevant dummy? With the spear, they measured the strain rather than the all-important pressure at the tip. It is simple physics that the amount of bend (strain) is not directly proportional to the pressure at the tip. So why talk about strain rather than pressure, also glossing over how a lot of the pressure is obviously spread over the collarbones with the flat of the blade rather than the tip itself? The answer to all of this is because both the circus acts and the TV program are entertainment not science.<br /><br />Clearly these are impressive feats, and I am impressed (and entertained). Good for them. It is clear that kung fu and chi kung obviously give you lots of body conditioning benefits (that's why I do it). But does this video in any way provide evidence for "chi energy", or even the lower bar of "things science cannot explain"? No. Back to my original post, does this video beautifully demonstrate the widespread incorrect and corrupted use of the word chi in the English language? Yes.Sprialwisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00521078672734736942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-10237163035627232912015-06-14T21:22:58.567+01:002015-06-14T21:22:58.567+01:00Thanks for the interesting link. However I have a ...Thanks for the interesting link. However I have a hard time matching one of those nine definitions with what I see in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tb8bWbA678Hungerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03513286538467841568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-10425275663255991182015-01-26T22:30:26.263+00:002015-01-26T22:30:26.263+00:00We know the body is a tensional network, and that ...We know the body is a tensional network, and that the tensions of those lines can be altered. Chi could simply be stored elastic energy in the tensional network of our bodies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_energy<br /><br />It's useful to note that SEE (or prestress) is essential for our tensional networks to exist. Without the tension, the structure will cease to be. The science goes back to a paper that Cornell Professor Robert Connelly published back in 1982: "Rigidity and Energy" (http://www.math.cornell.edu/~connelly/rigidity.energy.pdf). I'd also suggest that anyone interested in the topic start by reading Donald Ingber's SciAm article "The Architecture of Life" (1998): bit.ly/18PCvxN . After that, I'd recommend Graham Scarr's new text "Biotensegrity: The Structural Basis for Life" (2014).<br /><br />Finally, anyone who has studied the systems of major lines of tension (like Thomas Myers's Anatomy Trains) knows that there is not one solution for a concert of tensions to hold up the body or do some particular kind of work. The "efficiency" described in this article could well be reconciled by particular combinations of stored elastic energy in those lines of tension.<br /><br />I am disappointed with articles like this. I'm not disappointed that I have a different conclusion than the authors but that it didn't even occur to them to consider stored elastic energy for the phenomena they are seeking to describe and quantify. This is not mystical stuff; it's really not that difficult to start thinking this way.FloatingBoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664382074362311291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-16458543190304634272014-12-12T10:30:07.705+00:002014-12-12T10:30:07.705+00:00Hello, nice piece. Would it be ok if I used the pi...Hello, nice piece. Would it be ok if I used the picture of the woman spinning poi for an article I am doing? Thank youAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11763201617712898700noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-33550591089057976732014-10-26T21:53:00.697+00:002014-10-26T21:53:00.697+00:00I been practising Tai Chi for a decade now, search...I been practising Tai Chi for a decade now, searching the answer if there is Chi for another decade. Coming a bit from new age background I was thinking that of course there is chi and Tai Chi masters have so much of it that they throw people around. I still do it exists but the issue is way more complicated than the naive idea of some external supernatural force out there. So I can't explain it, but I can point to some scientific data, anecdotes and my personal experiences.<br />Tai Chi is very complex to understand. I have been trying to understand it all my practice time, and each time my practice goes deeper, I have to rewrite my definition for Tai Chi. I guess on my death bed I can say my final definition about it.<br />Few things in my everyday practice point to direction that the proper Tai Chi force is not just newton mechanics.<br />1) There is something about the quality of the force. If you observe when true Tai Chi master pushes people they often smile, feel uplifted and more energetic. If students try to push same person with brute strength they may move equally far away but there is no smiling and it's just fighting force with force. Tai Chi force feels different.<br />2) When testing sword form. There is wooden sword between students. Student can with almost invisible movement close or open/lift or sink other ones force. And the feeling for the person who is testing is very distinctive. How one can transmit such a noticeable difference in force, when physical motion is just about 1 inch and there is solid object between students. Of course if novice tries the same thing it's totally different even if student only have wooden sword to feel it through.<br />3) Using Yi/attention. If student is able to project yi properly the force is greatly amplified. Even though the physical motion is same for each try. Nothing else changes, only eyes focus more and mind expands. More power and once again the feeling of the power is very different and this is usually the point when people start smiling.<br />These are few examples that have been baffling in my own practise. My Sifu has demonstrated affecting students without touching as well. He is first one to say though that that kind of thing probably doesn't work in real fight so it's just for fun and for practising. This I agree. I haven been pushed in that way, and it definitely feels fun, but I don't think I would've moved if I really wanted to stay still. It wasn't that strong. And that's another question really and tell us nothing about if there is chi or not.<br />People who developed Tai Chi didn't care if mystical chi existed or not. They were interested only to get most power out. They use whatever is there. Tai Chi works (when done correctly) if one believes in chi or not. But same time being too physical/mechanistic oriented may lead us astray and then we never find the diamond that is in the art. Let the scientist keep searching and us practising in old way.<br />I remember few years ago being baffled again by the Tai Chi power. One of our teachers came and said to me. “Let it go. I'm scientist and was first 7 years trying to figure out how this can be. I never could explain it. Finally I stopped trying to analyse that and then the Tai Chi started working for me.”<br />BigPandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02984261856721753524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-14567258625992892362014-10-23T08:07:54.745+01:002014-10-23T08:07:54.745+01:00Hello there,Buddhism and neuroscience have paralle...Hello there,Buddhism and neuroscience have parallel however very unique conventions for inspecting cognizance and its connection to the body.These customs about-face no less than 2500 years to the Buddha and Hippocrates.While both disciplines place incredible attention on experience and reason,their methods of research and check are drastically diverse.While neuroscience looks at mind-brain forms to a great extent equitably,utilizing progressively modern innovation,Buddhism seeks after its research primarily by improving solidness and clarity of subjective awareness, and coordinates that awareness around the investigation of cognitive occasions and other phenomena.Thank you.<br />-------------------------------------------><br /><a href="http://www.kirpalsingh-falsesuccessors.org/doc6eng.html" rel="nofollow">AJAIB SINGH JI</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07988523802451534867noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-60247200400082208442014-10-17T20:25:34.629+01:002014-10-17T20:25:34.629+01:00probably like people say love is a verb, not a nou...probably like people say love is a verb, not a noun. so is chi, action/movement<br />RAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01261542175727520578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-64223145426386015932014-10-01T06:32:34.933+01:002014-10-01T06:32:34.933+01:00Thank you for this wisdom and information on the (...Thank you for this wisdom and information on the (clearly) wonderful martial art, of Tai Chi.<br /><br />In another life, I would devote my life to such a pursuit. But I've chosen to do and master other things, which I find equally fulfilling and worthwhile.<br /><br />I wish you all the best in your own path to mastering taijiquan.<br /><br />Are you still on this path, in 2014, or gone to another now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-23492838699338176532014-05-20T14:04:07.442+01:002014-05-20T14:04:07.442+01:00Hi Philip – thanks for your post, I think you arti...Hi Philip – thanks for your post, I think you articulate the TCM perspective well. <br /><br />The issue, to my mind is to be absolutely clear when you are talking about a belief, a faith, or a religion; and when you are talking about the results of application of the scientific method, that adds to the body of logically consistent and predictive scientific theory. You seem to mix the two:<br /><br />“if I have no Qi I am dead” – This is your belief, your religion. I respect that, but it is an opinion based on faith. Perfectly valid, but not something that can be reasoned about in a scientific context.<br /><br />Then… “Emitting during Qigong if done scientifically and with the correct medical protocol does produce real results. Emitting Qi is possible and has being measured in clinical trails as heat etc”<br /><br />Please can you provide references for this? No doubt if the results are convincing they would appear in all sorts of reputable medical journals. I have looked but have yet to find any convincing study. Perhaps you can provide an extensive bibliography as it is your field? [Note being published in itself is not that convincing (indeed this blog itself is “published”), hence lots of publications in TCM specific journals does little. But publications in jounals such as the BMJ or other journals with high impact scores would lend credibility to your agreement.]<br /> <br />“Clinical trials for TCM require different protocols to Western Medicine by the nature of what is be assessed.”<br /><br />This is usually the crux of it. These “different protocols” is basically a euphemism for “throwing away the scientific method”. If you believe it works, and is scientifically provable, then there should be no difficulty in following the scientific method. The fact that these studies can’t speaks volumes. Quantum physics, Behavioural psychology, Stem cell research, Material science, Medical science etc etc are all completely different fields that use different techniques; however they all use the scientific method to demonstrate cause & effect. Out of all the mind-numbingly large number of things that have been studied successfully by science, I fail to see why TCM & Qi alone should be given a special exception not to conform.SpiralWisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10619983850219828834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8701793858378117295.post-87005563715972830172014-05-15T18:08:06.477+01:002014-05-15T18:08:06.477+01:00William Says,
Thanks for this nice video footage...<a href="http://crossfitkaiju.com/" rel="nofollow">William</a> Says, <br />Thanks for this nice video footage about structural warm up exercise. Though I'm sure that people will surely be benefited by getting a chance to see this handy video footage. thanks Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17861894411215814532noreply@blogger.com